If you’re just joining us, click here to see what this prayer team is all about! While we are a “pro-life” prayer team, we, IN NO WAY, stand in judgment against those who have chosen abortion in the past! We hold you and your heart in the highest esteem and you are SO WELCOME here. Many women (and men) who’ve experienced abortion often hold onto the memory in silence, suppressing feelings of guilt, shame and grief for, quite often, years. If this describes you, and you would like more information on how to find hope and healing, please visit this site, or click on the “contact me” button above.
On last week’s post, I had another comment from my “anonymous” commenter. While we are not always in agreement, she does keep me on my toes and constantly reviewing what I believe about the many facets of the abortion issue; for that, I am grateful! It’s a good thing to stay fresh and discuss our differences, with love and respect, so that we can hopefully reach solutions that work.
The question she posed last week will be one that will come up more and more frequently, as those who wish to see the end of legal abortion are more vocal about their desires. I’m going to publish part of her comment today, so that you can be thinking about how you would respond in such a conversation.
As I told her (you can read the entire conversation here), I don’t believe that, once abortion is illegal, that a woman who chooses abortion should go to prison. I believe that those who provide abortions should be the ones who are prosecuted. They are the ones that would threaten “further harm to society” and must be stopped. My friend, Pat Layton, responded to “Anonymous” as well, with these eloquent words:
NOTHING good comes from abortion.
In my opinion, abortion is a violation of the commitment to PROTECT life taken by a medical professional. The abortionist is the one who should be persecuted for such a violation against women and their babies.”
Finally, in a link I sent to “Anonymous”, I found this quote from Father Frank Pavone, of Priests for Life:
I think there are a LOT of people in the pro-choice camp that feel pro-lifers don’t have women’s best interests at heart. I think it’s important that we let them know that we’re pro-lifers because we love unborn babies AND their mothers (and fathers), praying against the victimization of BOTH – not out of a place of judgment or condemnation, but from a heart of love.
will see a great light.
For those who live in a land of deep darkness,
a light will shine.
Isaiah 9:2 NLT
Thank you for the food for thought and the loving and encouraging words to guide us on the right path to love.
Praying – April
Melinda, I do agree that the abortion providers are the ones who should be prosecuted, not the women who have the abortions.
I find this [[[How in heavens name can you justify a physical prison (the place we send murderers) the appropriate place for those who have made a clearly wrong choice and, in most cases, not intended to hurt or defile or seek vengance?"]]] sentence very interesting from anonymous.
In fact, the woman who has an abortion DOES indeed intend to hurt another…the unborn baby and herself. She makes an intentional choice to take the life of her baby. I know the woman who is in a desperate situation 'thinks' the abortion will solve her problem and on the surface it may appear to, but the reality is that the underlying, emotional trauma will be unspeakable for most women eventually.
I liken this to having an affair. In the midst of a bad marriage, another man may appear to be the right answer but that new relationship will eventually lose the newness and reality will hit…the grass may look greener on the other side, but it has the same weeds in it that your own home grass has.
God bless you and God bless anonymous in her honest search for truth.
Leah
Oh Melinda,
Here I find a place of courage, forgiveness, guidance, support, sisterhood, friendship, clarity, Truth and His love.
You have a big ole Texan heart steeped in tenacity & Truth.
Still praying…
Praying with you!
Still praying with you!
I think the commenter poses a valid question regarding the "legal" ramifications of having an abortion. Got me thinking today…
Like should my son who just received his first speeding ticket (thus, breaking the law) be in prison with murderers? No, I certainly hope not. But as a woman who prides herself (which is a mistake to begin with) on external black and whites, this is a very good question and one that you and Pat have dealt with well.
I will continue to ponder this, as I do most things, in the days to come and will hop over the website you posted regarding tonight's conference. Thanks, again, for all you're doing.
And thanks, commenter, for wrestling with some hard questions. The wrestling is a necessary step toward understanding.
peace~elaine
OK… so you've now given me 4 1/2 miles of thinking about this while out on my jog and here are some thoughts that are stirring (they by no means come from a place of condemnation for the sinner… only from a question that poses some interesting dilemmas for us as a society).
With all law, both moral and "legal" law, there are consequences to our choices… whether they root from intentional sin or otherwise. If we're going to make "abortion" illegal (and I personally believe that we should), then there will have to be some "penalties" attached to the crime (I'm speaking in legal terms here). Otherwise, we make a mockery of the law.
If we call abortion "murder" with the definition that it is the "taking of an innocent life", then murder comes with consequences. What those consequences should look like, I'm not sure. I'm not talking about the emotional consequences… those are readily and obviously available in spades. I'm just saying, where do we draw the line? If a juvenile has an abortion, should the parents or the lover who paid for the abortion be the responsible parties?
Should the CEO's who are cheating on their wives who paid for the abortion be held accountable?
Who pays the penalty from the "crime" committed? I'm not sure the clinics are the only ones culpable. These are the murky waters we cross over when thinking about such an issue.
Having said that, I understand about the "self-imposed" chains that linger because of sin. My divorce left me in bondage for years, and in OT times would have cost me my life… even some modern-day cultures stone women for such an offense.
Thankfully, that "moral" law never made it's way into American law or our prisons would be full!
But where's the culpability? Too often we want to "sanitize" our legal crimes/sins by looking at intent/motives, etc. I'm all about grace and the offering of it to everyone! But I'm also a person who lives by the law in our country.
If we're going to "outlaw" abortion, then we'd better be prepared to exact some penalties along those lines.
What do we do with the Andrea Yates who drowns her kids? Or the woman who strapped her young kids in their car seats and rolled her car into a lake for a man (Susan somebody)? Was that murder?
Indeed it was. So, as Christians, we'd better examine this own issue in our hearts and decide who gets a pass on the law and who doesn't. It's a worthy pause of our hearts and one we must be willing to "carry through" on if we're going to make this law.
I hope I don't sound completely stupid or off the mark here…
but we must be willing to deal with this crossing over from moral law to "legal" law. There will be penalties attached; again, not sure what that should be, but if we're going to put this into law, someone will have to pay the consequences, and I'm not so sure that adult women who choose illegal abortions shouldn't bear some of the culpability.
Just my thoughts (a lot I know)… that's what a thought-provoking post from you and a good run will get you.
Love you.
peace~elaine
Thank you Elaine for your comment, I have been in church since the cradle, went to a Christian College and consider myself fairly mature in my spiritual life. As I mentioned early on, my perspective on this controversial subject changed after spending a month in the NICU years ago. I present challenging questions because I too seek the Truth that some commenters imply I am lacking. However, taking a birth control pill does prevent a life (with the intent to prevent a life)and it seems that we rationalize that. This seems very inconsistent and somewhat hypocritical.
Still seeking Truth everyday, perhaps giving too much grace, I don't see how that is possible. Seems so much debate on this topic and just can't imagine Jesus spending His time here on earth petitioning and opposing laws to take choices away from women that He allows them to have. Passing the blame onto abortion providers just does not settle well with me. I think that mindset hinders our growth. Owning our own choices enables growth and helps us heal. I don't think punishing someone else for our sin is ever mentioned in Scripture.
Just a thought, perhaps try to arrange a visit to a neonatal unit sometime and talk with nurses there. I guarantee your eyes will glimpse a new perspective. Sometimes our circumstances emotionally scar us for life, they have traumatic endings no matter what, just makes us all reach for Him.
Thanks for all the imput, we can learn so much from each other.
Hi ladies,
I so appreciate your comments. I have some thoughts in response to Elaine and Anonymous, but it's late and I'm pooped! Look for them here tomorrow.
Wow, Elaine, I wrote my last comments referring to your first post yesterday. Now that I have read your second post(btw- I posted after much thought while cleaning up 4 mile deep dirt in my house:) I sense the gears turning in your thought process, much like mine as I too believe many parties can/may be involved when abortion happens. Let's put our rocks down just as Christ tells us to do when casting blame gets so complicated. There are already far too many people serving prison sentences who are victims themselves or even innocent of their crime.
I know this disucssion could last til eternity. I have been compelled to post, probably spending way too much time now continuing to post, I have enjoyed reading your responses to all who have commented. Let's just continue to pray for all of us and that God would give us wisdom and discernment in all we do with our bodies, our time, and our resources as we grow in Him and serve Him.
Whether you eat or drink or whatever you do, do it all for the glory of God.
1 Cor. 10:31(I think)
Wow … I'm not sure which handle to grasp first. There's a number of them – all weighty and worthy.
I'll go on the record as being adamantly pro-life. The very thought of abortion rips my guts. Having been through two of them with much-loved family members, I can tell you they haunt me if even they don't haunt them!
I'm wondering if there is such a thing as reverting to the illegal status of abortion. I doubt we can or will go back. It's become such an accepted and acceptible means of birth control.
There's no quick, simple solution to any of this. But I thank God for the many that are fighting for the life & rights of the unborn, whether through activist initiatives or at the voting polls.
Blessings,
Kathleen
I never cease to be amazed at how deep and wide emotions and opinions run on this very controversial topic. When I began blogging about 2 and half years ago, I never in a million years would have thought I (NON-confrontational, NON-controversial ME) would be "hosting" a prayer team on one of the BIGGEST "hot-button" topics today…much less engaging in banter involving my opinions on the matter! Yet, here I am…here WE are, doing just that.
I want to address a point that Anonymous makes, first. She states that she "just can't imagine Jesus spending His time here on earth petitioning and opposing laws to take choices away from women that He allows them to have." He does indeed allow us choices. However, should EVERY choice that's available to us be legal? Drugs? Child Pornography? I think that if either of these (among many others) were being considered for legalization, we'd all rise up to fight it! I think about Jesus and how He dealt with the money-changers in the temple. They exercised their free will to be there (and were within their legal right, as I understand it), but He was still angered by it and vocal about it. It went against God's written word, and He drove them out. I feel that abortion falls into much the same category – a legal choice that goes against God's written word, and deserves our greatest attempts to "drive it out", as well. This is why I feel justified in my decision to rise passionately against legalized abortion and other "choices" that should never be legal. Which leads me to me to the next point.
When Anonymous posed her question last week, it was a one specifically addressing the subject of prison for those choosing abortion, should abortion become illegal. I still hold to my opinion that they should not be sentenced to prison. But, as Elaine brings up, for the law to "hold water" if legal abortion is overturned, there has to be some legal ramification for the women (and others who participate). I don't know what that should be, but I don't disagree with it. I just don't think it should be prison, believing that prison should be reserved for those still trying to perpetuate the industry, once it becomes illegal. Here's why:
I believe that in most cases, women who seek to have an abortion are not seeking it to kill a child. They are seeking to end a pregnancy…what, in their mind, will BECOME a child if they let the pregnancy continue. I realize that sounds like I'm splitting hairs, but the abortion industry has WIDELY perpetuated the myth that a pregnancy begins as a "blob of tissue" that doesn't become an actual child until MUCH later. (A few years ago, my own daughter spoke to me of a friend of hers that had an abortion. She thought it was okay, because "it's not really a baby until 20 weeks." She'd heard this at school and completely believed it. I was floored.) This is why I feel like these women are different than the woman who intentionally drowns her baby, and why they have to be dealt with differently. When slavery was abolished, it took years and years for people of color to be seen as equal humans to all other races, instead of inhuman or at best, sub-human (in some cases, we still have a ways to go). It will take strong enforcement and consequences of the law, and a LOT of truth to the masses over a LONG period of time, to undo the lies that babies aren't human at conception and that abortion really does kill children. Again, why I believe the heavy penalties should fall to those in the industry. (Continued in the next comment…)
(Continued from previous comment) When I started this prayer team, it was to join together to pray for the president's heart to change on the subject of abortion; that he would see how wide spread the damage is to both the unborn and their parents, and that he would have his eyes opened to the lies spread by a multi-billion dollar industry. It was never to "hurl stones" at anyone, but to present facts from the news and how we could all do our part to stop the madness and show God's love to the broken in its wake. As I mentioned above, I feel called and justified to do this because while we all have choices to make, they all are not in line with scripture (sin) and shouldn't all be legal. This is one area that, in my heart of hearts, I believe we got wrong. I'm willing to do what I can to "drive it out."
Thanks so much for your thoughtful comments (if you've managed to get through this crazy long comment of mine!). Know that I value them and your contemplation of hard topics. I echo Anonymous when she says, "Let's just continue to pray for all of us and that God would give us wisdom and discernment in all we do with our bodies, our time, and our resources as we grow in Him and serve Him."
Yours in Christ,
Melinda
I do understand your comments, the questions or thoughts that you addressed. My main posted comments concerned birth control pills and inconsistance with your efforts which you really never addressed fully except you seemed to rationalize it as most of us do.
Jesus had righteous anger and did drive out the venders in the synagogue because He said they were making the Father's House of worship a den of thieves. They were prostituting a sacred place. Our bodies are likewise His temple. Taking a pill to prevent a life, to me, seems right in line with someone "having a blob removed." Both are "playing God" and preventing what might or might not go on and develop into a born being. I believe you have to take the whole complex equation of reproduction and it's stages as our cycles pass each month and stop deciding which part is okay to be legal and which is not.
God is in control of our nation and I just don't think the "heart of our President" is the main issue here. It is the heart of our country, full of brokenness. He claims to be a Christian(as I do) and just because his perspective is probably similar to mine(and MANY other Christians) does not mean he would actually approve of an abortion for his own wife or daughters. In fact, I will go out on a limb and gesture that he would not. But he, like many of us, believe in that freedom of choice of the woman with her body.
I do wish you much success with your efforts and I know God is using you in a mighty way in the hearts of many who have had abortions already.
Me again, sorry if I seem to be a thorn in your flesh, I am guessing you will discontinue taking anonymous comments at which point I may have an identity if I am still compelled to comment! I hope that won't happen, I do feel this has been productive discussion and the intent is not to discourage you but seeking understanding from your extreme viewpoint on anti-abortion rights. Withholding my identity is to preserve the relationship more than anything else.
Prayed for more insight from God last night and actually woke up with fresh thoughts I believe pertain to this issue concerning God's laws and man's laws. Take the commandments of adultery, honoring your father and mother, etc., bearing false witness, etc. Is one more important than the other for us to follow? Breaking any of them has consequences either/both to us and those affected by our usually willful disobedience. They all involve wrong choices whether they are illegal or not. In fact, the consequences of breaking any of them can/may bring devastation and generational sin just as severe as the aftermath of abortion. Do we need to legally punish all responsible for these violations of Scripture as well?
After all these years of war that Bush involved our country in, all the loss of life on foreign ground due to this war based on a lie(weapons of mass destructin that have never surfaced), and yet because he is prolife, he remains flawless in other prolifers eyes. What is the difference between loss of life here? Satan is the father of lies and does his best work in those we regard as spiritual leaders. Because Obama is prochoice, he will remain flawed in prolifers eyes. If nothing else, why can't you acknowledge perhaps he(like me) is a man with empathy, compassion, and trying to lead our country to the best of his ability which may not include enacting laws to pick and choose which of God's laws are worthy of earthly, criminal punishment, and which are not. We would probably all be guilty which just points us back to Christ, the one who gives and takes away, holds no condemnation, whom we all will be accountable to one day, whom forgives all our sins, willful or not til the day we meet Him face to face.
thanks for reading,
Dear Anonymous,
This is indeed the last of your comments I will publish under "anonymous." Please know that I have MANY friends, and some family, that hold very different view points than I, and I love them all! If we are actual friends who have a relationship, then I love you for YOU, not your political or moral view points. That said, put your name on your thoughts and own them with confidence…I want all who visit here (and are respectful to all) to feel freedom to do just that.
You and I have come to an impasse. We are obviously not going to agree on this issue. So, in a final response to your last comment, I offer the following:
– I don't think that we need to impose legal penalty for the commandments that you mentioned; however, along those lines, are you suggesting that murder should be legal? Should it not carry any legal ramification? Just food for thought. Since I see abortion as a "life" issue, sweeping through our country as a "legal death for money," multi-billion dollar industry, I think that it, too, should be illegal.
-While military loss of life grieves me no end, I'm so very thankful for the sacrifice of these men and women. Without leadership (albeit it flawed, no matter the political party, because they are human), we would be in complete chaos. Our leaders are going to make mistakes and sacrifices will be made because of them. I think we have to remember that those that choose the military, do it knowing the risks and knowing that their lives are in the hands of a human president. Every one of my family that are serving now, do so proudly, even if they are not in agreement with the administration under which they serve. And my cousin, that was lost, is not grieved by parents that think of his life lost in vain, but with a valiant purpose.
For the record, I do not see George Bush as a flawless president. He made mistakes, some quite costly, but I do believe him to be a man of character who voted along the lines of what is important to me. My pro-life stance is not the only measure by which I "grade" those I vote into leadership.
That said, I don't believe I've ever stated that President Obama wasn't "a man with empathy, compassion, and trying to lead our country to the best of his ability." I would hope that he is! I hold the utmost respect for the office of the President of the United States. I might (and do) diabolically disagree with many of his ideas (not just on abortion), but he is our president and his position commands respect, even with opposing views. My prayers (and those from this team) for him, are being offered because he holds such great authority and influence.
I will not apologize for standing for what I believe, speaking for the unborn, and children, in general, that have no voice. I think we are called to stand for life – not against it – and for all legislation that stands for what God says is important to Him…it's what our country was founded on, and, otherwise, I think we would've wiped each other out long ago, or fallen into deeper depravity than we already have.
I appreciate your obvious heart for others. Thanks for helping us think through why we believe what we do. It will help us all stand more firmly in our convictions, and explain them with love and respect.